Reactions about Braves’ Kevin Seitzer… from Previous Fans

Given that Kevin Seitzer has already been the hitting coach of a couple of different organizations, it seems reasonable to go back and see the thoughts of some of the people that used to root for his success – past and present.  Within these, you will be able to see clues to his approach and to the changes he will be making to Braves’ hitters.

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One takeaway for certain:

I cannot

ever

recall any fans from any team looking back at the firing of a hitting coach and lamenting the event.  That just doesn’t ever seem to happen… yet for Seitzer’s removal from Kansas City, I have multiple such incidents – and I cannot find one that was actually supportive of the move at the time.  Interesting.

Here we go:

A Royal Mistake:  The Firing of Kevin Seitzer

ZACH HODSON / ROYALS BLUE (May 4, 2014)

In this piece, Zach pulls no punches:  he goes through the years and the lineup, asserting that even in the year Seitzer was fired from Kansas City after the 2012 season (for the offense of “an overall lack of offensive production”) most members of the team were still showing improvement – a progress that died after his departure.

The money quote:

"But Butler had got better. Escobar got better. Perez got better. Moustakas got better. Jarrod Dyson got better. Chris Getz got better. Gordon at worst was a wash with 9 less HR than the previous year but, again, LED ALL OF MLB IN DOUBLES. I suppose that coupled with 15 less RBIs could be considered regression, but nothing out of the ordinary in the season-to-season ebb and flow of major league baseball players."

He even pointed out that Jeff Francoeur had a decent year in 2011 under Seitzer (.285 – best since 2007… or since).  But only Frenchy and Eric Hosmer‘s downturns in 2012 were the exceptions in KC.  The troubles of those two were apparently sufficient to end Seitzer’s tenure at Kauffman.  Never mind that Jeff in particular reverted to the very practices that caused Atlanta to pass on him (mercifully so – having offered a extension he opted to decline).

Firing Kevin Seitzer Was a Disaster

JOHN VIRIL / THE VIRIL VIEW.COM (August 2, 2013)

This speaks quite well for itself:

"The only opening-day position player that has hit better than their career average is Eric Hosmer (and that’s only due to George Brett and Pete Grifol fixing him after Jack Maloof and Andre David were fired). Everyone else is performing below their established career performance levels in both batting average and OPS.That, my friends, screams that something was wrong with the hitting instructors—which brings us to the off-season firing of hitting coach Kevin Seitzer in favor of the Jack Maloof/Andre David tandem."

(Curiously enough, as Kings of Kauffman pointed out:  Maloof had been in the Braves’ organization for a time prior to his elevation to that position … which lasted only half way through 2013 season:  an admission of the organization’s mistake, but one they failed to correct as they refused to re-hire Seitzer).

The Missing Ingredient

RANY / RANY ON THE ROYALS (August 24, 2013)

Nearing the end of the 2013 season – the season after Setizer departed KC – Rany goes on a very detailed tirade about the downturn in Royals’ hitting through the 2013 season.  His ‘”missing ingredient,” of course, was Seitzer.

Here’s his core quote, which will tell you most of what you need to know about Kevin’s hitting philosophy:

"The drop in doubles is particularly astonishing. Two years ago the Royals finished second in the league with 325 doubles. Last year they dropped all the way to third, with 295 doubles. This year they are 12th, on pace for just 258, with almost exactly the same personnel. This is what people who were critical of Seitzer harped on – that he focused on hitting the ball up the middle, and gap power, which was good for two-base hits but not so much for the four-base hits that you really want."

But wait:  there’s another great pull from there (emphasis added):

"Back in May, Russell Carleton published a study at Baseball Prospectus that evaluated hitting coaches based on whether the hitters under their tutelage improved or declined. By his methodology – and it’s only one way of looking at things – Kevin Seitzer was worth about 58 runs over an average hitting coach over the course of a season. Among every hitting coach of the last 20 years who had held the job for more than two seasons, the only hitting coach worth more was Clint Hurdle – who coached for the Rockies from 1997 to 2001, before the humidor, when Coors Field was maybe the best hitters’ park in world history."

_______

So Why Was Seitzer Canned from Kansas City?

Oct 25, 2014. Kansas City Royals manager

before game four of the 2014 World Series. Mandatory Credit: Ed Szczepanski-USA TODAY Sports

One word:  Philosophy.  This from baseballthinkfactory.com, quoting Ned Yost:

"“Our offense was built more around singles and doubles,” Yost said, “but it’s difficult to get three or four singles in a row to score a run. We have to have the ability to open it up a little more, use the power that we have to take advantage of a quick strike.“A walk, a base-hit and boom — there’s three runs. I think that’s the major difference in philosophy.”"

Ah, the three-run homer philosophy!  That’s what Ned wanted!  But Braves’ fans will note that we weren’t even getting those occasional blasts in the second half of 2014 – never mind many singles to precede that.

Funny thing about that quote, though:  the Kings of Kauffman didn’t buy it for a second  (from October 2012):

"I’m sorry but when has this ever been Ned Yost’s philosophy? I am happy that he decided to channel his inner Earl Weaver mostly because I never suspected he possessed an inner Earl Weaver. And why would I? A single, a stolen base, a sacrifice bunt, a sacrifice fly and boom – there’s one run is more to Yost’s tastes than a three-run home run."

Seitzer’s attitude, though, isn’t all about hitting singles – it’s in making solid contact from gap-to-gap.  Singles and doubles.  The expectation is that the Braves’ players coming up from the minors will add the additional dimension of speed to that – which could make the power game an unnecessary luxury.

_______

This is a from Blue Jays’ blog – looking toward Seitzer as hitting coach for 2014:

What Should Kevin Seitzer’s No. 1 Priority Be As Toronto Blue Jays Hitting Coach?

THOM TSANG / RANTSPORTS.COM (October 18, 2013)

Quoting directly:

"The results of this move will have to wait, of course, but it’d be an understatement to say that Seitzer has his work cut out for him as far as what he needs to do to help this club play to its potential. If the team goes into the 2014 season with the same on-field personnel as they ended 2013 with, there’s a laundry list’s worth of things to fix here from J.P. Arencibia‘s all-or-nothing bat that’s far too often the latter, to making sure that Melky Cabrera‘s 2013 issues don’t go deeper than his removed back tumor.Given that he’s already worked his magic with the latter, you’d have to think that he might just be able to do some good there, even if talk about coaching impact is mostly guesswork at best.One thing that will not require any guessing, however, is what Seitzer’s most important task would be for the 2014 Blue Jays: fixing Brett Lawrie."

That didn’t happen:  Lawrie hit .254 in 2013… and .247 in 2014 over just 70 games and 282 plate appearances, though his HR total of 12 exceeded his 11 from a 107 game 2013.  He had hit .293 and .273 in 2011-2012.  As for J.P. Arencibia?  He’s a Ranger… and he tanked to .177.  Stubborn is as stubborn does.

Has Kevin Seitzer Improved Blue Jays’ Plate Discipline?

AL EASTBOUND.COM (May 3, 2014)

Apr 2, 2014; Toronto Blue Jays hitting coach Kevin Seitzer (25). Mandatory Credit: Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports

Here’s the relevant quotes, including the notion that Seitzer can’t fix stubborn hitters (think:  Francoeur, Lawrie, Rasmus… Upton?):

"…you can plainly see that a majority of the overall lower swing rate comes from Jose Bautista and Adam Lind.  Saying that those are three of the more important cogs in the lineup and of course they will make up a good deal of overall plate appearances.The Blue Jays have a few free swingers that aren’t likely to start changing now.  Brett Lawrie swinging as often as Melky Cabrera given the differences in contact skills might explain some of his early season batting average struggles.While not conclusive down the entire lineup card as a team the Blue Jays are trying to work the count a little deeper and have swung at less pitches overall.  Ranking 4th overall in swing percentage is a good thing."

Kevin Seitzer no longer Blue Jays pitching coach

STAFF / INTERPEG.COM/GLOBALNEWS.CA

Yes – that’s EXACTLY how the headline (and the URL address) reads.  Oops!  Not surprisingly, no one actually took personal credit for the article posted.

Moving on, then…

Braves hire hitting coach Kevin Seitzer away from Blue Jays

BLUEBIRDBANTER.COM (October 27, 2014)

"We heard a lot about Kevin Seitzer’s coaching influence on the TV broadcasts, especially at the beginning of the season. Indeed, he did stress making gap-to-gap contact at the plate and worked with his batters to hit the ball the other way to beat shifts. Coaches, especially at the major league level, probably do not make that much of a difference on wins and losses overall, but they can have tremendous effects on individual players. Seitzer seemed to have worked wonders for the pull hitter Jose Bautista in 2014, but his hitting philosophy did not go over well with Colby Rasmus. Although not popular with Rasmus, Seitzer was popular around here, with 87% of readers voting that the Blue Jays should retain him for the 2015 season."

And finally, this from our sister site:  JaysJournal.com (October 27, 2014)

Toronto Blue Jays lose hitting coach Kevin Seitzer to Atlanta Braves

KYLE FRANZONI / JAYSJOURNAL.COM (October 27, 2014)

"However, there were indications in Toronto that the team may have been looking for something different as well. Adam Lind, while gaining showing strong improvements in his contact rates, indicated that Seitzer’s approach also played a part in his power numbers suffering in 2014."

Yep – there’s that philosophy thing again.

Conclusion?  Coaches dig the long ball, but Seitzer develops hitters.